Comments on: A Sketch of PO LiveEdit http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/ Programming focused drivel Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:36:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ozten http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/comment-page-1/#comment-170 ozten Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:56:08 +0000 http://ozten.com/psto/?p=115#comment-170 @Fred - This sounds promising... I'll check it out. I guess the best outcome of a post like this is to find out what open source code is already out there. @Fred – This sounds promising… I’ll check it out. I guess the best outcome of a post like this is to find out what open source code is already out there.

]]> By: ozten http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/comment-page-1/#comment-169 ozten Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:55:04 +0000 http://ozten.com/psto/?p=115#comment-169 @Axel good idea, I've posted a message to mozilla.dev.l10n.web. You are an L10n expert, so you probably see a lot of potential issues that I am missing. Your suggestions go completely against my design constraints... So I'd say this idea for better or for worse, is a (thought) experiment in a different solution space than L20n experiments, such as creating a new string file format or a new version control system. @Axel good idea, I’ve posted a message to mozilla.dev.l10n.web. You are an L10n expert, so you probably see a lot of potential issues that I am missing. Your suggestions go completely against my design constraints… So I’d say this idea for better or for worse, is a (thought) experiment in a different solution space than L20n experiments, such as creating a new string file format or a new version control system.

]]> By: Fred http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/comment-page-1/#comment-168 Fred Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:54:37 +0000 http://ozten.com/psto/?p=115#comment-168 ozten: Yes, gandalf has shown me the Gallery 3 idea. I like its concept (like gandalf says, it's a little firebug-like) but its commit workflow is more targeted to many independent instances of the same software so that part is not easily applicable to Mozilla. Also, Unless I am mistaken, it does not auto-update on the fly without reloading the page. ozten: Yes, gandalf has shown me the Gallery 3 idea. I like its concept (like gandalf says, it’s a little firebug-like) but its commit workflow is more targeted to many independent instances of the same software so that part is not easily applicable to Mozilla. Also, Unless I am mistaken, it does not auto-update on the fly without reloading the page.

]]> By: Axel Hecht http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/comment-page-1/#comment-166 Axel Hecht Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:04:16 +0000 http://ozten.com/psto/?p=115#comment-166 There is another system like this, the l10n infrastructure of facebook. Sadly, that's closed source. Same origin policy isn't a problem with http access headers. If we try something ourselves, we should talk to the gallery3 guys, and probably investigate writing a web api for that purpose on which we can stack inline-web-ui as well as jetpack sidebars or real extensions. The association of UI elements to translatable strings does seem to me like it needs to be hooked up into the very system. In particular if you have an element with localizable content, you usually put the po inside the element. To markup the reference, you need to change an attribute on the element. So this indeed will need to be a rather involved stack. I don't think that svn is the right versioning system, I think we need a special purpose versioning system for those edits, and then some code that takes subsets of contributions and upstreams them into some staging, and then to some backbone versioning system. I'm not sure how either of gallery3 or facebook do this. I talked to Fred about the implications and the datamining here, too. Should some of this move into .l10n.web for discussion? There is another system like this, the l10n infrastructure of facebook. Sadly, that’s closed source.

Same origin policy isn’t a problem with http access headers.

If we try something ourselves, we should talk to the gallery3 guys, and probably investigate writing a web api for that purpose on which we can stack inline-web-ui as well as jetpack sidebars or real extensions.

The association of UI elements to translatable strings does seem to me like it needs to be hooked up into the very system. In particular if you have an element with localizable content, you usually put the po inside the element. To markup the reference, you need to change an attribute on the element. So this indeed will need to be a rather involved stack.

I don’t think that svn is the right versioning system, I think we need a special purpose versioning system for those edits, and then some code that takes subsets of contributions and upstreams them into some staging, and then to some backbone versioning system. I’m not sure how either of gallery3 or facebook do this. I talked to Fred about the implications and the datamining here, too.

Should some of this move into .l10n.web for discussion?

]]> By: ozten http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/comment-page-1/#comment-165 ozten Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:19:15 +0000 http://ozten.com/psto/?p=115#comment-165 @gandalf - I will have to look into the translation toolkit used by Gallery3. I wonder if Fred has checked it out? @gandalf – I will have to look into the translation toolkit used by Gallery3. I wonder if Fred has checked it out?

]]> By: ozten http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/comment-page-1/#comment-164 ozten Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:17:21 +0000 http://ozten.com/psto/?p=115#comment-164 @flod - Yes, this approach would still let you use existing tools like PO Edit and existing workflows for things like working offline, search & replace, and QA. This is because SVN and po files are still in use. @flod – Yes, this approach would still let you use existing tools like PO Edit and existing workflows for things like working offline, search & replace, and QA.

This is because SVN and po files are still in use.

]]> By: Mozilla Webdev » Blog Archive » Improving Mozilla Web Localization, Part 3: Challenges for Tools http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/comment-page-1/#comment-163 Mozilla Webdev » Blog Archive » Improving Mozilla Web Localization, Part 3: Challenges for Tools Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:14:57 +0000 http://ozten.com/psto/?p=115#comment-163 [...] files, but they do not help you translate the website. One way to change this would be building a “PO live edit” tool, as my colleague Austin King describes in a recent blog [...] [...] files, but they do not help you translate the website. One way to change this would be building a “PO live edit” tool, as my colleague Austin King describes in a recent blog [...]

]]> By: gandalf http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/comment-page-1/#comment-162 gandalf Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:51:16 +0000 http://ozten.com/psto/?p=115#comment-162 Hi Austin. I was recently playing around this concept as well and one of the great technologies I found is translation toolkit used by Gallery3 webapp. It does a lot of what you're proposing together with online syncing and uploading of your localizations and a pretty nice UI. I would like to take it and mix with my mockup so that it both, allows you to translate the file in the bottom of the screen (a little bit like Firebug UI) or by pointing an element for a click. We could start from there and take it to the extreme :) I'd love to see such approach if only to experiment with where we can go :) Hi Austin.

I was recently playing around this concept as well and one of the great technologies I found is translation toolkit used by Gallery3 webapp. It does a lot of what you’re proposing together with online syncing and uploading of your localizations and a pretty nice UI.

I would like to take it and mix with my mockup so that it both, allows you to translate the file in the bottom of the screen (a little bit like Firebug UI) or by pointing an element for a click.

We could start from there and take it to the extreme :) I’d love to see such approach if only to experiment with where we can go :)

]]> By: flod http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/comment-page-1/#comment-161 flod Sat, 15 Aug 2009 05:47:57 +0000 http://ozten.com/psto/?p=115#comment-161 It's an interesting approach, in particular for single pages or really small sites, but I think that you still need access to the underlying .po file: * To backup your localization and work offline. * To perform a find&replace in the whole file (this happens if you change the localization of a single term). * To check your work (doing QA on a single text file is a lot easier than reading a website online). P.S. one long line of text in "Considerations:" is messing up the layout of this post and the feed ;-) It’s an interesting approach, in particular for single pages or really small sites, but I think that you still need access to the underlying .po file:
* To backup your localization and work offline.
* To perform a find&replace in the whole file (this happens if you change the localization of a single term).
* To check your work (doing QA on a single text file is a lot easier than reading a website online).

P.S. one long line of text in “Considerations:” is messing up the layout of this post and the feed ;-)

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